Nets Are Scorching

At least you acknowledge that your indifference to Vince is irrational. The guy was phenomenal for the Nets. I saw the worst of him in Toronto and that Vince just wasn't there in NJ. He killed it the whole time he was there, especially last season when he could have whined about not having decent teammates.

The Nets wanted to rebuild, so dumping him is fine. In no way does it make them a better team in the short term, though.

...and Mark, while I acknowledge your disclaimer that your perception may be neither fair nor rational, you say you "look forward to the day that Vince Carter becomes merely a blip in Nets history." Wow man, no way around it, that is mean spirited... Regarding his Toronto years, granted it ended ugly, but he gave his blood, sweat, and knees to that organization for SEVEN years! It really was like the seven year itch and he just couldn't do it anymore. Who can't understand that! I always say what Alonzo Mourning did to the Nets was far far worse than that! We signed him to a huge contract after his kidney transplant when no one really knew what kind of NBA player he could still be; he never committed to the team, bitched and moaned his way out within a year and told the Nets and their fans to kiss his blahblahblah... I do not understand why he has never really been taken to task for that.

I agree with Brad's assessment: As a Net, Vince Carter was by ALL accounts a great teammate, leader and a perfect ambassader for a franchise that has a long history of attitude/head/criminal cases. He was incredibly durable, frequently spectacular and consistently deadly in the clutch. Shame you missed all that.

First of all, I cannot forget my excitement when the news first broke that Vince Carter was a Net. While I will acknowledge that Vince gave us a mixed bag of tricks, for every big shot he made at the end of a game, it seemed there was a sloppy turnover at the end of another. Those were the most frustrating moments of his Nets career. But Carter's game changed as his "flight got canceled" (his words) and he really became a leader on this team. The reason the Nets did so much better than predicted last year was because of Vince. He was the one who brought the team in early last year to start practising and playing together (Jarvis Hayes has picked up that role this year). I really don't recall that happening before. He made the team better and created scoring opportunites by passing out of the double team and drawing defenders to him. I think this was especially beneficial for Brook in his rookie year. To me, how the team adjusts to not having that is the biggest question mark of the year. Who will the other teams double now? And how will that person handle it? I think it was hard to follow the Kidd era with our back to back trips to the finals, so the VC "moment" doesn't have that salient memorability (kind of like some still not feeling A-Rod is a "real" Yankee, despite being MVP in a Yankee uniform). Now, the trade that sent him to the Magic was a good one for both teams, we got a future star/scoring leader, a solid veteran big man, and cap space; Orlando got VC, who may push them over the top this year and Ryan Anderson, a very promising young player who I hated to lose. Carter's skill set really complements what the Magic already had, he's never played with a dominant big man, so I really think he will have a huge season playing with Dwight Howard. Hope they win the NBA Championship. That's if the Nets don't. Haha...

Actually, maybe his moment wasn't even on the court. He witnessed the Miracle on the Hudson from his window... Love ya Vince!

i loved carter but i agree with mark in the fact that i would have loved for the Nets to build the team around Jefferson after they traded kidd for harris. Jefferson is younger and had more of an upside but hey now we have Yi and Lee and money to spend on free agents. but about Carter u mark and sebastian are right he wasnt clutch everyone only says hey carter was clutched because of those big shots against the raptors everytime we faced them. but not going far in the playoffs was not his fault the first year we made it with him the heat were a great team. the next year when he and kidd led us there at the end when we had the tie breaker against cleveland we didnt have a healthy jefferson going up against the heat agian. but he did put up good numbers. so i cheer for vince now that hes in orlando

I'm a huge Carter fan and I think he played hard and was a class act. If you want to place the blame for lack of sucess during our era its down to to the loss of good player like Mark said and at best a weak supporting cast. I think the big three all did a good job and even were a nice fit together but I don't think we ever had the bench or the talent from our big men to really be competitive. Sure Kristic was looking nice espicially in the 06 playoffs for a while but he took a huge step back soon after. The big three to me worked well. While I'm a huge Carter fan I don't and I disagree with the critisim in the article I think Mark was mostly admitting he was a good player just not when he ever loved or was an all time great. Whatever about anyone else though I'll have fond memories of VC.

I think a lot of you guys (especially the Magic fans coming over) are missing the point of Mark's post. He didn't say Vince was a terrible player, and he sure didn't say Vince was going to not help the Magic at all.

I believe Mark (and if I am wrong he will come here and correct me) is saying that, yeah Vince was a solid player, but he shouldn't be remembered as one of the great all time Nets.

As for the clutch play, if you ignore this year (where he played fantastic in the clutch), was Vince really great in the clutch? I tend to agree with Mark here and say he wasn't. We can't let one great year of clutch shot making blind us from the rest.

But hey, as always thanks for taking the time out to comment guys, it is always appreciated!

Man this Guy Mark sure knows his basketball. Vince was terrible in New Jersey and won't help the magic at all. I didn't expect the bloggers to be as bad as the franchise but at least all that is NETS is consistent.

funny! we have the same discussions over whether Turk will be missed or not on the Magic blogs

ever think that maybe he didnt "lead" the team to anything more than a 2nd round exit because your center was freaking mikki moore? the "big 3" + mikki moore = 2nd round exit at best in my book.

In all seriousness, I'm glad this post was so strongly criticized by readers on this site. I openly admit that my lack of appreciation for VC is somewhat irrational. Maybe I just won't know what we had until it's gone, to use the cliche. Not to repeat myself, but I could just never embrace the guy and I think we're going to be a better team without him - maybe not in 2009-10, but soon. I also don't think he's goign to make the Magic all that better, whereas I do think RJ is going to be the missing piece for the Spurs.

We've all been lucky to witness two of the greatest Net players in franchise history: VC and JKidd. I find it ridiculous that Vince still takes a beating from Net fans. After we traded RJ, VC responded with great leadership and another 20-5-5 season. His presence on the court allowed the Net supporting cast to play well (Hayes, Dooling and even Simmons). After Kidd was traded, RJ's perimeter defense suffered, and his lack of an offensive repertoire was exposed. Vince has repeatedly proved the doubters wrong, over and over again. His gracious exit is something that is rarely seen in an ego-filled league. VC will def. be missed! Now it's Brook's turn to whoop some a$$

Mark-RJ wasn't 'the root of the problem' at all...I am an RJ fan. I was just noting that he had been the first option at times in his Net career, and both times the Nets were no good. And, as for the clutch thing, sure Carter missed his share of late game shots...but in those situations, (inside the last two minutes or at the last second) he fared better and made more shots than almost anyone else in the league.

Mark you cannot be serious when you say a Vince Carter led Nets team never made it past the 2nd round. Who was his best big man? Jason Collins? Vince has never had a big man and that is the formula in order to win (unless you are MJ). As far as 04-05 goes, VC carried the Nets into the playoffs winning 15 of 19. You can't possibly believe if RJ was the one healthy and VC were the one hurt, that they would have put up a record like that.

Brad - don't you think the slow start to '04 had as much to do with Ratner's cost-cutting and Kidd recovering from knee surgery? And how much was 07-08 about Kidd mentally checking out and requesting he be traded? You're glossing over major chunks of history in your attempts to make RJ the root of the problem.

I also think the clutch thing is overrated. You give the guy the ball at the end of the game every time, the probability is there that he's going to hit some shots. VC also missed a ton of shots in the final moments of the game or wasn't able to get shots off because he was seeking phantom foul calls. The bottom line is a Vince Carter-led Nets team never made it past the second round of the playoffs. The guy is a nice player, but he's not a living Nets legend who should be crowned as an all-time great. That's the point of my post.

Nonsense. Especially the part about the Nets 'thriving' before Vince arrived and "changed all that". Yeah those 2004 Nets were ready to take over the league! Jabari Smith, Rodney Buford, Ron Mercer, Eric Williams...then Carter came and "changed all that" by dragging those bums to the playoffs averaging 27ppg. Oh, and don't you recall that your wish to have RJ as the focal point of the offense was granted in the beggining of '04 (22 ppg-the Nets stunk), and 07-08 (22 ppg,he stopped defending and Nets missed the playoffs for the first time in 7 seasons). As a Net, Vince Carter was by ALL accounts a great teammate, leader, and a perfect ambassader for a franchise that has a long history of attitude/head/criminal cases. He was incredibly durable, frequently spectacular and consistently deadly in the clutch. Shame you missed all that.

Mark,

I disagree and believe you are in the minority here.

Vince was a class act, true professional and leader during his time in New Jersey.

He never once complained about his situation when he had opportunities too.

The Nets "lack" of playoff success had nothing to do with Vince and there were seasons that Vince carried us to the playoffs.

He hit a ton of huge shots and ones that flat out won games for us.

I think it would be hard to not applaud and miss a guy like that.

Vince Carter was the front office's attempt to sell more tickets. Carter was a athletic freak that would attract fans with his style of play. Saying that, I would just like to make it clear that Carter did bring his savvy and fresh moves along with him to Jersey and entertained the very few that were in attendance at the Izod Center. I am happy for him because now he gets a chance at competing for a title and playing in a city where he can be more appreciated. I loved Carter when he came and loved him more after last year. He took a going nowhere Nets to a team that competed on the most part. I am truly sad to watch Vince Carter leave.

Great post and I had the same feelings about Vince for all but one year of his Nets career. Last year I took a complete 180 on Vince as you saw him take a step back as a star and took a step foward as a leader. It just seemed him and Frank were on the same page as the Nets tried to raise a young team, and I think for the most part, they succeeded. Now in the end I am only reacting to what I see TV and Live, but, I think that the Nets really liked playing or each other, and I am going to miss the leader Vince the came out of last year, because I think it would of only grew this year.