Nets Are Scorching

@Lester Kendall Gill and Devin Harris play two different positions. Also, there aren't many individual players that can take a team to the Finals, let alone into the postseason. Obviously, it's a team game and the love for Harris (from me anyway) is that we already have a point guard, let's fill a need with Turner who can play both swing positions. In fact his handle is so good, he can play the lead guard position much in the same way Brandon Roy does.

@Carlos The thing about T-Will is that he's nowhere close to having the scoring ability that Turner does. Turner can legitimately do it all with the aforementioned trey hitting being suspect. T-Will can't create his own shot as well or get to the rim and line as Turner. Regarding the power forward spot, I think the Nets are hoping for a free agent such as the ones I mentioned in my article. But again, it'll all become clearer after the lottery.

the nets should take John Wall. They already have an Evan Turner-like player in Terrence William, who showed some promise in the point-forward role at the end of last season. If the Nets don't get the No.1 pick to take Wall, they should take Derrick Favors to fill their PF weakness.

I find the Devin Harris love amazing. It's nice and touching but seriously he is not taking any team to the finals or the second round. The injuries are a real issue, his games played are declining and bodies don't get tougher as they get older. He played 69 games in his all-star year. Let's put this in perspective his numbers were similar to Kendall Gill's 96-97 year. Come on Nets fans I don't hear many of us talking about how we just never seemed to put the right mix of players around Kendall. Also, I don't seem to hear talk around the NBA that if the Nets draft #1 and take Wall then Devin Harris might become available.

I would think by draft day June 26th or whatever, the Nets will know if LeBron might be coming to us, especially with Jay-Z as our fly on the wall. If LeBron was seriously considering the Nets he might even let them know in advance, so that they would have a better idea on who to draft. May be considered "illegal", but "a nod is as good as a wink to a blind commissioner".

Well, I think we need to slow down first since we don't have either LeBron or Turner... yet. BUT, if the Nets do get them, then Turner definitely at the two. Honestly, if the Nets knew they'd get LeBron, I'd choose a big like Cousins, but that's the problem, isn't it? We don't know.

Anyone have a DeLorean with a flux capacitor?

Now that we almost have LeBron... Where will Turner play? Backup SF for next ten years? Or will he become our SG? Should get real interesting around here in the next couple of months.

It will all depend on who the new coach is and what offensive philosophy he brings. For example, Monta Ellis and Stephen Curry work as a backcourt because of Nellie's offense and a seeming lack of indifference to play defense.

I don't get it. It's like we have to have one or the other. Wall is 6-3/6-4 and so is Harris

@Gabe, you say the Nets won't draft Turner because they have enough ball handlers, then you say they should draft Wall.

Turner can play off ball, Wall can't.

Well, as mentioned before, saying stuff like this is regular behavior around draft time... blowing smoke. Probably just in case they don't have one of the top two picks in the draft.

The Nets wont draft Turner. Unless they get the 4th pick and he slides to the 4th spot--but then may even look to trade it.

I know this for a fact.

But I cannot tell you who told me. I can shed some logic as to why the nets do not want Turner.

1) they already have Williams and Harris as ball handlers

2) Thorn has stated he doesnt think Turner is the 2nd best pick.

The Nets draft board will be this.

1) John Wall
2) Demarcus Cousins
3) Derrick Favors
4) Evan Turner

@Dane Darko was definitely one of the hyped-up Euros I was taking about, but at least he hung around unlike Nikoloz Tskitishvili... Wow, was that a bust! But, back to Darko, at least he has a ring... through sheer luck and cheering a lot from the bench.

@fro Agreed! Well, obviously... haha.

@Jimmy Before the Dwight Howard/Emeka Okafor draft, many said that in five years, Okafor would be one of the five best players in the L... how did that work out? And in five years when Harris will be 32-years-old, seventh man for a well run organization isn't too bad at all. Besides, perhaps Turner will also be one of the top players in the Association... unless you have some oracle hanging about, everything at this point is speculation anyway.

@Randy Tim Hardaway had an ugly shot, Shawn Marion's shot looks like the type of release Cameron Diaz's brother in "There's Something About Mary" would shoot, but they did fine. What matters most is that the twine snaps after the release. And, yes, Cousin's head is as hateable as a slow driver in the left lane.

ASPGDH is faster than John Wall.

Player X is really one of a kind. He runs the floor, handles the ball, shoots the NBA 3 and plays with his back to the basket, so you can slot him in at the 3, 4 or 5 positions. OK, a few other guys can do that too; what sets Player X apart is his toughness in the post. You have to love a guy who has the footwork to spin by an opponent but still prefers to lower a shoulder and bang. Fact is, Player X plays in attack-mode at both ends of the floor. The more you push, the more he pushes back. While he won't be asked to carry the Pistons, he's capable of doing this earlier than you think.

Seems like a stud, especially when he goes #2 overall.

Darko.

"BTW I hate cousins head."

Thank you! Me too!

My only concern is that Turner's shot looks ugly & somewhat broken.jwall shot may be bad but fundamentally it looks good. Ex. 1DH has an ugly shot that has not improved much. BTW I hate cousins head.

In five years, when John Wall is one of the five best players in the league and Devin Harris is a seventh man for Portland, this article will inspire laughter in all who read it. Draft Wall now.

@Sam, as mentioned already, athleticism will only get so far. Especially if John Wall gets hit with his first major injury and explosiveness is taken out of the question. Turner is solid fundamentally and doesn't need athleticism to win. I rather look for that insurance.

Greg Oden was and quite possibly still is a freak of nature with his height, vertical, strength and explosive power. KD just had ridiculous length, amazing shooting touch, and the drive of a superstar. He learned/is still learning how to play great D, improve his court IQ, and become a team leader. I'll take the latter anyday over natural raw ability.

"The fact that we’re even debating taking Turner #1 is insane".

I think it's "insane" that we are still Nets fans, after what we went through this year.

Turner might end up the best of the bunch and so might the 22nd player chosen. That's what makes sports so great. You never know for sure.

Wall is fast enough to get by 98% of the league RIGHT NOW. Give him a year or two to learn the NBA PG position and people will be saying the same things they already do about Derrick Rose: "give him a jump shot and he'll be unstoppable."

The fact that we're even debating taking Turner #1 is insane

@Dennis As long as I get to be the pre-surgery Heidi, we'll be fine!

@calling_all_toasters

I totally agree with your take. If you're drafting a guy you want to be on your team for the next 10-15 years, and your team had 12 wins this year, you don't draft "for need." You take the best available player and hope that sometime in the next 3-5 years you can find enough pieces to go around that guy to make a serious run. If Cousins is the best available, take him. But if not, don't pass on Wall because of Devin Harris (sorry, ASPGDH).

@ Calling All Toasters & Dennis;

You both make convincing arguments for your players, Wall and Turner. Maybe it would be for the best, for world peace understanding and harmony,if the Nets end up with Cousins. Then you both would have something to agree on... and cry over. LOL

@calling all toasters We will never get along, I feel. We are each other's Oil/Water, Superman/Lex Luthor, Heidi Montag pre-surgeries/Heidi Montag 95.4% plastic, etc. Alas, I think we'd only get along when the Nets are winning. Hahaha. Honestly though... love debating hoops, my friend.

Granger improved from his 1st college year to his 2nd, from his 2nd to his 3rd, and from his 3rd to his 4th. Turner has shown no net improvement from his 1st to his 3rd, but you want to extrapolate to his improving as a pro?

Yes, Harris/Turner/TWill/Amare/Brook *could* make the playoffs, but Wall/CLee/TWill/Amare/Brook would be as good a starting 5, plus have more depth at the 4 or 5 (from the Harris trade), plus have more upside down the road.

But the Nets are in the Eastern Conference... it's possible to make the playoffs next season without LeBron... of course, I'm part-joking and part-being serious, but IF the Nets can get one of the four PF free agents I've mentioned, it's quite possible.

Regarding the Granger argument, I mentioned him simply because he wasn't a three-point threat from his freshman to junior seasons any more than Turner was. And looking at the numbers, Granger only wins in most threes by four their junior years, but Turner had the better percentages. And, yes, Granger did improve his first two years as a pro (0.4 3PTM; 32.2% his first season... 1.3 3PTM; 38.2% his second season), but Turner hasn't even played in the pros yet! Plus Granger had the benefit of playing his senior season.

"the Granger argument is fallacious"

Um, OK, not "fallacious." Let's say "not necessarily apropos."

@Dennis-- the Granger argument is fallacious. Granger got better every year, then improved in his first two years as a pro. Turner has not been getting better, and I don't see any particular reason to assume he'll get better as a pro just because Granger did.

@Dennis "but who knows what happens… and that’s exactly why I’d keep Harris and take the chance on Turner, who I think is more NBA-ready and refined."

What is the point of having someone NBA-ready, if the only way we're going to the playoffs next year is with LeBron? It doesn't work for contending in 4 years either-- by then you'd (well, I'd) want Wall.

@Mike "among Wall supporters we are considered crazy. They might be right."
heh heh

Oh, also, here's a college comparison of Granger and Turner in regards to shooting threes:

FRESHMAN YEAR
Granger: 3-for-17; 17.6%
Turner: 23-for-69; 33.3%

SOPHOMORE YEAR
Granger: 6-for-20; 30.0%
Turner: 11-for-25; 44.0%

JUNIOR YEAR
Granger: 24-for-72; 33.3%
Turner: 20-for-55; 36.4%

SENIOR YEAR
Granger: 45-for-104; 43.3%
Turner: Went pro

It should be noted that Granger played at Bradley his first two seasons and missed half of his sophomore season. In any case, from freshman to junior year, they're comparable if Turner not being slightly better. So, I don't think it's out of the question that Turner develops a three-point shot.

@ Dennis; If Wall is that great of a prospect, every team in the NBA would give a King's ransom to get him. Your logic seems right to me but among Wall supporters we are considered crazy. They might be right.

The Nets back court would be clogged if Wall or Turner are drafted. Someone will have to be traded. he Nets need 3pt shooting and neither one of these draft picks has a consistant jumper. Courtney Lee is the best pure shooter on the Nets and that is scary!
We need to start praying for the #1 pick. The Nets could get 3 or 4 and not get Turner or Wall. Then what?
Favors? Cousins? Johnson??
If the Nets get the #1 pick the next 4 teams can be held hostage for an additional pick or a trade.

Funny how everybody was 100% sure that LeBron would not leave Cleveland. Might not be so far fetched with one more Boston victory.

Why don't they hold the draft after free agents are signed or at least give free agents and teams a few weeks before the draft?

Who you might end up signing would probably alter who you are going to draft.

Imagine drafting Wall and then finding out Wade wants to sign with your club.

@Mike Looking at the top four teams (chance-wise), only the Sacramento Kings need a point guard (with Tyreke Evans moving/staying at the two). The Nets don't REALLY need one, the Warriors already have two in Monta Ellis and Stephen Curry, and the T-Wolves can't really be that masochistic. So, considering that Turner and Cousins are top four picks and the Nets have the first pick to draft Wall, the only viable trade partner would be the Kings, who would need at least a top three pick as I believe Turner will go second and Cousins third.

@calling all toasters I guess I just don't like the "what if" factor as the reason to draft Wall. Of course it'd be great to sign LBJ, but who knows what happens... and that's exactly why I'd keep Harris and take the chance on Turner, who I think is more NBA-ready and refined.

I agree with both of you that TWill makes more sense as a 6th man.

"If we acted this way, the Nets would be the Knicks, putting all of their eggs in one basket."

Disagree here. Drafting Wall has an *added benefit* of making the team more attractive to LeBron, in part because they make more sense together. Increasing your chances of attracting LeBron is worth doing: he'd probably add 20+ victories by himself, and cost less than the combined pay Rudy Gay and David Lee. The salary cap makes him the greatest bargain in sports.

But I think the choice of Wall clearly works whether LBJ comes or not. If I were as confident as Dennis that Turner will be effective shooting the 3, I'd consider him to be a significantly better prospect than I do now.

I would draft Wall #1... then trade him down for Cousins or Turner, plus a hefty finders fee.

Lets wait and see what happens with the workouts and interviews.
Things can change.

But we still need the #1 pick so we won't have to go crazy for another 6 weeks, wondering who will still be available at 2-4. LOL

Nets fans have waited and suffered enough this year.

Lets go Nets...

"I don’t think T-Will NEEDS the ball to be effective as much because he’s more of a finisher on the break with the ability to penetrate and dish if need be. In fact, maybe it makes sense for him to be the sixth man to provide energy off the pine and start Lee. Perhaps a Manu Ginobili type thing for T-Will?"

Interesting idea. I do think T-Will is much more effective with the ball in his hands than without, and he's most effective when he's not relying on his poor jumper and facilitating the offense with his court vision and exploiting his matchup advantage. If we put him in a lineup with Harris and Turner (or Harris & Wall, or if my NBA 2K10 Association has anything to say about it, Wall & James Harden), who are two creators who work best with the ball in their hands, it might be a case of "The Disease of More." If you put him in a sixth man role, though, it gives him much more freedom to create.

I've never wanted T-Will in the starting lineup - I still hold some very skeptical opinions of T-Will's ability to contribute on a winning team, despite the excitement he's given Nets fans over the last two months - but I wouldn't be averse to trying him out in that role, backing up the 1-3 positions.

Well, the whole premise of my choice is need and working off of what we know. While it might make sense to take Wall instead of Turner, trade Harris, and sign LeBron, we won't know if any of that happens.

If we acted this way, the Nets would be the Knicks, putting all of their eggs in one basket. Seriously, if the Knicks don't sign LeBron, it wouldn't be out of the question to say they failed this offseason.

I don't think T-Will NEEDS the ball to be effective as much because he's more of a finisher on the break with the ability to penetrate and dish if need be. In fact, maybe it makes sense for him to be the sixth man to provide energy off the pine and start Lee. Perhaps a Manu Ginobili type thing for T-Will? Regarding Harris, yes, he needs the ball to be effective because he's the point guard, but I'm sure he'd love to be on the receiving end of an assist every now and then. Turner is a great penetrator and can get to the line. However, he has a good mid-range game as well and I truly believe he can develop a three-point shot the way Danny Granger has. Honestly don't see any downside to having a couple/few ball-handlers on the court at one time.

Also, we have to consider who the coach will be and what type of offense will be instilled. So, at this point, who knows? But I do know that Turner will be able to adjust to any offense because his skill set is so versatile.

@Dennis: the flip side is: what if we do have Harris, Turner, and TWill as starters? On offense they all need to handle the ball to be effective (although TWill less so than the others). And, BTW, so does LeBron :)
So I would expect them to underperform. With Wall in and Harris out, you can play a shooting guard who's a shooter (like CLee), and the Nets desperately need shooters. 3 penetrators and 2 bigs makes it crowded under the hoop. On defense, Wall is far better equipped to defend the other team's best penetrator than Turner or Harris.
I really don't see a downside to picking Wall, other than he may "only" be as good as Rose or Tyreke. Or maybe all the NBA teams for who Devin would be an upgrade decide to spite themselves and not offer value. But if they did, we could fill a desperate need for either a big or a shooter. With Turner we still will be weak in those areas, regardless of what the FA market brings.

@calling all toasters I never said that Harris was an elite player, but even being a little bit above average as you say PLUS having Turner at a position the Nets have more of a need to fill makes more sense to me than taking Wall and HOPING he turns out to be an elite PG. Do I think Wall can be one? Sure, he definitely has a high upside. But I also think Turner can be Brandon Roy East.

@Mike Let's hope all of those players turn out great... at least the top four... hahaha. Who would you draft first?

It's quite possible that Wall,Turner,Cousins etc. all turn out to be great picks. Then it would come down to team needs and how that player fit in.

I'm still hoping the Nets get the #1 pick even though they probably won't draft the player I would draft. Getting the #1 pick changes everything leading into the actual draft. The Nets would be in the drivers seat... ultimate control.

"So, while Harris may never make the All-Star team again, it doesn’t matter as long as he plays like one." But he won't play like one.

You are relying on the assumption that somehow his one appearance was deserved, that his career year was the most representative, but that his future non-appearances will not be deserved.

Anyway, the simple fact is that ASPGDH is a little above average, but far from elite. He had 11.1 WARP in his AS year, 4.6 this year, giving him a 15.7 total. Some other totals: Kidd, 23.5. Rondo, 28.0. Nash, 23.1. DWilliams, 25.0. CP3, 36.8. Billups, 20.0. Andre Miller, 17.4.
I'm pretty sure he makes a worse comparison if you use Win Shares instead of WARP.

But, I don't remember there being an ASCSR in the league.

Plus, ASPGDH is still relatively young and can still potentially get back to the All-Star Game. But even if he doesn't, how many times has there been a deserving player left off the team? Every single year we hear about those deserving players that get shafted. Stephen Jackson is a great example of being C-blocked this past season.

IN FACT, Jackson has NEVER made an All-Star team despite averaging 18.5 PPG since becoming a full-on starter for the Atlanta Hawks in 2003-04, including averaging 20 points a game the last three seasons. Plus he can board, drop dimes, hit the trey, and play D. He's been a difference-maker for the Warriors and most recently, the Bobcats, helping them make their first, albeit short, playoff appearance.

So, while Harris may never make the All-Star team again, it doesn't matter as long as he plays like one. I'd rather gamble on knowing what Harris can do on the NBA level AND have Turner than hope Wall can fulfill all of the high expectations. I guess it's the equivalent of wearing protection before going to bed with Paris Hilton... I know what's up!

I could live with a starting lineup of PG Devin Harris, SG Evan Turner, SF Terrence Williams, PF Amare Stoudimire, C Brook Lopez

That would get us to the playoffs !!

By the way, can we start abbreviating "All-Star point guard Devin Harris" (ASPGDH)? Since, apparently, this is his name. And he'll want to hang on to it, because he will *never* be an All-Star again. ASPGDH has had a grand total of 1 very good year out of 6. He is a decent offensive player, no better than that. And he is terrible on defense. The idea that there would be some great disturbance in the Force because we had to trade him in the wake of drafting Wall is just odd.

Yes, if we draft Turner, we'd be less tempted to make a trade than if we drafted Wall. I don't understand why a 12 win team should be so reluctant to make a trade. To pass on Wall (in part) because you have Harris is like passing on Shaq because you already have Stanley Roberts.

@Matt Agreed!

@Mike Yeah, all joking aside, I'm scared that if the T-Wolves win the lottery they'll take Turner first overall since they already have Ramon Sessions, Jonny Flynn, and the rights to Ricky Rubio at the one.

@calling all toasters Those type of shenanigans are done everyday when draft time comes, but still, it shouldn't devalue Turner in any way because the dude is legit.

"many consider Wall and Turner, Pick 1A and 1B,"

Many are blowing smoke to get a chance at Wall.

Hey Dennis; Wouldn't it be a real kick in the pants if the Nets get the #2 pick and Turner is drafted #1? I agree with your Devin Harris assessment even though Devin's inconsistent play drives me crazy. Drafting Wall will cause problems for players like Harris, C.Lee, T-Will. Less playing time, reduced roles usually leads to unhappiness and frustration. We need a PF and SF. I want to build a team not the next wanna be superstar. LOL

and this is why I hope we get the #2 pick because no matter what were picking wall with #1. remember oden was #1 and Durant second? not eveyone fulfills the hype and some people exceed it