Nets Are Scorching

Referencing this video of Kings pre-draft workout with Cousins and Favors:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBSK0hLMYo8

Cousin's offense looks dominant. How compatible will he and Brook be on defense? Will he get back in transition?

Favors has to develop offense. That's not an easy thing.. people compare him to Dwight but Dwight hasn't won a championship and still doesn't have a very complex offensive game and he's in his seventh season.

I will take my chances with Cousins.. you don't pass on a talented big guy.

@Devin "but I think Cousins’s offensive low post game is almost too good to be forgotten about." No argument there. I love having a guy who can put the other team in foul trouble out of the post.

@CAT I hear you, but I think what's just as important to take out of that is that Cousins got a fair amount of offense in transition - more than Favors. That's not a knock on Favors, since Cousins had an electrifying backcourt to push the ball most of the time, but it would indicate that unlike what some think he actually does run the floor quite well.
Favors is excellent in transition while Cousins is merely good, no denying that, but I'd say that in terms of the whole package offensively (both transition & half-court sets) Cousins has the edge.
Of course, defensively is an entirely different matter - they're both good defenders in different sets, and I think most would agree that Favors's versatility gives him the edge - but I think Cousins's offensive low post game is almost too good to be forgotten about.

And one more thing... LOL... The Kings released some video of Cousins and Favors working out. Cousins is wearing a light grey t-shirt and it's soaked with sweat on the back. Favors from what I could make of it was wearing a dark blue shirt, so of course he wasn't sweating... Conclusion.. Cousins is out of shape of course, because he's sweating when working out. Amazing... Funny how Cousins workout with the Kings was marveled at but Favors workout wasn't mentioned as being anything special. I can't believe that Thorn and the Nets are dumb and blind. Cousins should be and will be the pick.
Now where are those freaking meds???

Mike, take your meds.

I love how the goal posts are always moved when discussing Cousins. Cousins weaknesses are all his own fault and he can't never improve, while Favors weaknesses are always blamed on something or someone else, and the sky is the limit. Meanwhile Cousins strength's are always an illusion while Favors strength's are always "better things too come". Cousins at the Kings workout hit an amazing 78% of 200 shots taken, the best any player has done for the Kings, Favors shoots just O.K. but they both are equal as jump shooters? I think Favors is a great potential talent, but Cousins is actually doing it now, NBA ready. As for numbers everybody knows Cousins college #'s are much better then not just Favors, but the best ever measured in years. But that doesn't count... Wow...

@Devin: I know that most people think Cousins is a better offensive player, but I would argue that the difference is actually tiny. Yes, Cousins is much more polished down on the block, and consequently more effective there (esp. at not turning the ball over). And they are very close to equal (slight edge to Favors in shooting %) in shooting jumpers. But transition is also part of the offense (well, not part of GTech's offense, but that's kind of the point). From DX: "Receiving some 92% of his touches in half court sets, Favors shot an incredible 84.2% in one fast break touch per-game." http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Derrick-Favors-1335/
In a fast break oriented offense, Favors might even rate slightly ahead of Cousins offensively.

http://www.draftexpress.com/stats.php?year=2009/10&q=shotselect&per=pergame&qual=prospects&sort=6&min=20&stage=&league=NCAA&conference=&Compare=Submit+Comparison&pos=&sort2=DESC&pid[43695]=43695&pid[44490]=44490

These seem to be pretty solid stats. Cousins has the edge for sure in the offensive categories, more production in fewer minutes, and his ability to get to the line pushes him past favors in offensive production despite derrick's better shooting from the floor (1.14 PP for DC vs 1.11 for DF) Favors also turns the ball over a lot more.

Last year DC was definitely the better player, and a great player. He's not as good of a finisher - somewhere else on that site I saw DF shoots 72% on "finishing opportunities" and DC is below 60% - which I think is reflective of the better athleticism of Favors.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?year=All&sort2=DESC&draft=0&pos=0&sort=7

And its kind of scary to see that DC's body fat of 16% makes him fatter than guys like Shaq, Mike Sweetney, and Kevin Love. At least he's not in the range of Oliver Miller 22%!

These where pretty good 1-3 picks that panned out nicely. But not all three ever became "superstar" players.

1981
Mark Aguirre
Isaih Thomas *
Buck Williams

1982
James Worthy *
Terry Cummings
Dominique Williams *

1994
Glen Robinson
Jason Kidd *
Grant Hill

Will history repeat itself?
After looking at the last 30 years of NBA drafts, there has not been one year where the top 3 picks have been all great players, who had a long NBA career.

That means out of Wall, Turner and Favors (I think it will be Cousins but I'm out numbered) one will be a bust or average/good player. I wonder who that will be? That is why I have to laugh when people predict super stardom for Wall, Turner and Favors. Never really has happened in last 30 years, in my humble opinion.

Why it makes sense to draft Cousins...
If Cousins can't cut it at PF, he should still be very valuable as a center. Very few great young centers, or old, in the NBA. If Favors don't make it at PF he has no other place to play. That is why Cousins is the "safer" pick. We will still have to sign a FA PF if Favors is the pick, so why not sign that PF and draft Cousins. Cousins can play backup PF and Center. He should get his share of minutes. If Cousins can play PF great if not he should command a hefty sum if traded. If Favors can't make it at PF he's worthless.

@dan I'll add to what CAT said and also note that Dave Berri's metrics are generally regarded as awful by anyone who isn't piss-drunk off his Kool-Aid.@cat
Hollinger's Rater is actually surprisingly good, despite its detractors - it misses on its fair share of players but is more accurate than actual GM's pretty often.
I don't know of many people who would argue that Favors is Cousins's offensive equal - Cousins is much better on the low block and showed off his impressive midrange game in a workout with the Kings recently. Even the staunchest pro-Favors camp usually admit that Cousins's game is more advanced offensively right now. The points for Favors are his athleticism, defense, and his future, (all three things that you also mentioned & I agree with), but not his offensive polish in the present.
The Nuggets got a blessing in Lawson, that's for sure.

@dan-- I noticed that, and I give it some weight. GMs overlooking productivity stats is why Ty Lawson was available at the 18th pick last year.
1) Those statistics are heavily skewed towards offense. I think most everyone thinks Favors is a better defender.
2) They are both on a per-minute basis, and one of Cousins's problems/mysteries is why he didn't play more minutes.
3) By the last 10 or 12 games of the season Favors had improved his stats quite a bit, while Cousin's had slightly declined. They were basically even down the stretch.
Now, it could be argued that 30+ games is a better sample, and that we would expect both of them to tend to return to the season average. OTOH, they are both quite young, so it can be argued that one should extrapolate from the arc of their seasons, i.e. that Favors will continue to rapidly improve while Cousins's improvement has slowed. I believe that Favors is basically Cousins's offensive equal right now: much better in transition, somewhat weaker in the half-court.
4) The reason Ty Lawson was downgraded was because of his height, which is at a premium in the pro game; otherwise he would have been an early lottery pick. Similarly, Cousins will (and should be) slightly downgraded because of his weak leaping, also at a premium in the pros.

Cousins certainly had a remarkable season, and college stats are moderately good predictors of rookie year stats. But I think this approach is far more useful to us for finding bargains with #27 and #31 than for choosing between 2 players about whom we know so much.

I want it to be made clear that I am not a Demarcus Cousins fan,I am a Nets fan. I don't wear Cousins jersey or have his poster on my wall. I'm way past the age of "falling in love" with players. I just want the Nets to draft the best talent for the team. I believe Cousins is the best talent in the draft, including Wall. I believe with the right environment and coaching, he can be a dominant player in the NBA for the next 10-12 years. A one of a kind player that does not come around very often. Thorn wants to draft Cousins and so do I. Lets see what happens.

You can have all the per 48 minutes stats you like but when there question you can play more than 20 minutes a game in 30 game season it doens't mean much.

That's exactly the thing with Cousins. No one ever said he didn't have the talent to be the best player in this draft. What everyone says is that will he have the discipline to keep his weight down, play team basketball, do what his coach says, or not be disruptive? You can have all the talent in the world but if you're some bad apple then that won't make a difference

i'm not a college hoops dude so i haven't ever seen either of these guys play, but i think it's interesting that the sabermetric-style analysis all think cousins is not only better than favors, but the best prospect in the entire draft.

dave berri's win score formula has cousins with the highest win score per 48 minutes, even above guys like john wall and evan turner, and john hollinger's draft rater has him at number one, with the fifth best rating in the history of his system.

what about evan turner if cousins or favors gets picked?

@fro Okafor was also three years Howard's senior. That comparison is inaccurate.
I'm not as fond of Cousins as Mike is but I agree that he can stretch more than I think people expect based on their idea of him. He can dribble the ball very well for a guy his size and has surprising range on his jumper.
At this point most people have already decided between either Cousins or Favors and nothing is going to change their mind. Hopefully Rod makes as informed a decision as possible.
I said in my Cousins vs. Favors piece that I was 51-49 in favor of Favors, but as I knew I would I'm starting to lean back towards Cousins.

Did anybody watch the avery johnson press conference on yes. very entertaining and insightful

Wasn't Okafor a more polished player at the time over Dwight? In a 1-on-1, Okafor would've dominated Dwight on both the offensive and defensive side. Thus, I agree more with Sebastian's second scenario that this workout will not do anything except confirm whether the Nets want Favors.

Eh no Mono isn't usually that serious a disease he'll be fine in three months.

Breaking news on Brook Lopez recovering from mononucleosis. He lost 30lbs and must get back into shape. Good luck Brook. We might have to draft a center after all.

@Mike I CAN imagine Cousins getting arrested for DUI and that is one of the main reasons why I and many fans don't want him, he has a short temper bad attitude poor work ethic and a potential chemistry killer and thats the last thing we need. I'm almost certain the Nets will draft Favors. and the only reason Brook played PF was because Robin played center same height and Brook is 10 lbs. heavier. and remember when the Nets beat the bulls and brook put up 26 and 14 he must be an amazing center, yeah i can pull up stats from one game and judge a player off of it too.

@Les Grossman;

Melo was arrested in Colorado in April 2008 for DUI. He pleaded guilty. Imagine if Cousins did that?

@Sebastian; How can I lose something I never had. LOL
Lopez played PF in college. He likes to roam from underneath the basketball and hoist up 15-18 jump shots. I was trying to be humorous with my remark but in all seriousness the Nets don't need another stretch PF. We already have one in Yi. I have never seen so much masked hate against a player who is 19 and one of the best players to come out in years. But it seems that Cousins now is going to be the Nets pick so I'm happy. Hope you guys give Cousins a chance when he's drafted by the Nets 9 days from now.

The one on one doesn't meant anything yes. Because one is a center the other is a power forward. If they really wanted to see how Cousins defended a NBA pf they'd use an NBA PF (not that we have any) Again the one on one aspect of the workout means little two diferent players so cpmaring how they perform against each other doesn't mean much. The workouts themselves obviously count, they are looking at both players so the indivdual work out is important. But having them play one on one, well there isn't any disadvantage to doing it but I don't see it being a big part of the decision. I won't be surprised because I'm open to the chance of taking Cousins but I'm more convinced we're taking Favors. Your convinced we're taking Cousins for reasons I don't understand. So if anyone is surprised it will be you.

When did Melo have attitude issues? When he was single handedly romping through the tourney to a title? I missed where Z-Bo, I mean Demarcus, did that... Look Z-Bo is a good player, he was extremely underrated this past year but he lacks an elite work ethic and is not a team player. Perfect guy to put up 20/10 year after year for teams that can barely contend for the 8 seed. There's a reason why Demarcus and Coleman share the same initials.

The Nets have their banger? Who is that? Hump? I love Brook but he is not a banger. He actually is more a stretch PF, living in a centers body... LMAO but not to much... I love that game last year we pulled down a grand total of 1 rebound.

I have a crush... For many years, on the NY/NJ NETS. It's about time we stop fooling around and draft impact players with some toughness. Enough of these soft crybabies. Avery is a tough dude and so is Demarcus. "Lets get physical, physical... Let me hear your big body talk, body talk"... Demarcus = Dynasty...

RotoWorld - 2 hrs ago...

(I'm not the only one!)

"Kings star Tyreke Evans has let it be known to Kings officials that he wouldn’t mind the team drafting big man DeMarcus Cousins with the fifth overall pick".

@Mike: "I have a feeling Favors will not show for the workout."

Like he didn't show up for the bench press or the Spurs interview at the combine? Oh, wait, that was your mancrush who did that.

The workout does not mean anything? It's just a show because Philly is doing it? Boy are you going to be surprised on draft night. LOL

Finally @ Mike. We're also working out Ed Monroe and whats his name this week. Do you think there real competitors for the pick? No, its called due dilligence.

Oh and being honest the workout doesn't mean much, there two different players at two diferent position. Playing one on one doesn't really tell you much. It basiclly a show because Philly were doing it so why not or what Sebastian said.

Nod to Sebastian, dead on. We don't who the superior talent is, lets not pretend we do. I also hate the word dominant, neither of these will be dominant next year. John Wall won't either, he'll be lucky to have a rookie year as good Derrick Rose who was very good but not dominant. I'll be thrilled if we draft a player whos Rookiee year is as solid as Brooks though that not likely because the was geat rookie season. Point is rookie aren't dominant and both Cousins and Favors are the type of player that will need time to adjust.

Show me a guy with Cousins body type and game who can outplay most big men he faces including Favors, and I will show you a future superstar. Cousins is much quicker and nimble then you think. Anybody who watches him play understands this. People who never watched him play just repeat cliches about "real PF's", "stretch PF's" etc. Cousins is a traditional PF. Let the hybrid's adjust to his game. And as for "attitude" issues, didn't everybody's darling Carmelo Anthony, have a few "attitude issues" a few years back.

Is there a precedent for this? I don't remember in recent years, where two guys have faced each other in a one on one matchup with both guys being possibilities for the pick. Maybe I am just not remembering something...

I'm all-in for Favors right now. Show me a guy with Cousins body type and game who is a top flight power forward in the league right now? All the best guys get it done with jumpers and face up game these days, Bosh, Gasol, Dirk, Amare, I have to go all the way down to Z-Bo to get to a guy who resembles Cousins... Attitude issues there too.

I have a feeling Favors will not show for the workout. Something will come up. Cousins will eat him alive. No knock on Favors but Cousins is a beast. That is why Favors and his agent have been avoiding facing Cousins in workouts.
Can't say I blame them.

@CAT; If it's a gut check for Favors and Favors fails the test, what does that mean for Cousins? Nothing? I think Thorn is more interested in seeing if Cousins can guard a athletic PF. If he can Cousins has to be the pick. According to recent reports several weeks ago, Thorn was high on Cousins, even after the combine. What changed? Nothing...

Sebastian-- Absolutely on target. It's a Favors gut-check.

P.S. If Thorn was sold on Favors why risk bringing Cousins in to work out against your "chosen one".
There are plenty of other players who can workout Favors. If Cousins dominated Favors in one workout, what would that mean? It would mean you are not really testing Favors but you are testing Cousins. Connect the dots and it all falls into place. Cousins is the front runner and Favors must knock him off his perch.

I'm pretty convinced, now more then ever, that Cousins will be the pick at #3. Cousins has done everything he has been asked to, losing body fat, doing very well in workouts, answering questions very nicely in interviews. We already know he is the superior talent. It would be very foolish not to pick the best BPA who happens to also be a player that might be a dominant star in the NBA very shortly. This workout will just seal the deal for Thorn and Cousins. Favors is a very nice talent but you always go for the "star" player, especially in the NBA, where superstars rule.