Nets Are Scorching

Lopez would be the only untouchable; guys with his skill and size are as rare as any other commodity in the NBA, and he's just entering his second season. That said if you could add Melo without moving Lopez or Harris (assuming he's still as quick and aggresive as he was a couple years back), how could you not pull the trigger? T-Will, Favors, Outlaw, I'd carry any and all of them to Denver if it meant bringing Melo back.

Nets fans are crazy, the problem is none of the players listed are as good as Lopez is now or have the upside he has. Griffin has the potential, but the Clips' listed him as hands off. Deng has 4 years and $51M left and the Bulls dont have the picks or expiring contracts, Gortat and crew are nice but no upside, no flexibility and no picks. While I agree that Favors OR Lopez would be needed to get it done, it won't be Lopez. Favors, Outlaw (For $ purposes) Humphries (exp $3.5M),2 #1's (11' GS 12') and 2 #2's is fair. If not good enough, fine. But Denver may not get an offer with as much upside and flexibility. And keep Billups. Would not be worth losing Murphy and Williams leaving the Nets with no PF and a 34yr old pg.

Denver aren't negotiating with only the Nets. All your "lets trade for Melo without giving up Lopez or Favors, the young assets that would make the trade worthwhile" is a bunch of GOP economic policy, aka BS. The Clippers would offer Griffin (who would start at PF on all but 4 NBA teams), the Bulls would offer Deng (who averaged 18pts, 7rbs at 25 years old) and Gibson (All-Rookie PF), the Magic would offer Gortat (young starting center Denver needs), Brandon Bass (high potential), Petrokis (shooter and defense).

Do any of you really think Denver would rather have D Harris (who would fight for playing time against billips and Lawson, isn't nearly as effective at SG, and is not even a top 5 pg in the east) and T Williams (who would not start at SF on 80% of NBA teams) plus some picks? Actually the picks may be the best assets in that list.

Please stop using the local Camden "products" and realize you'll have to give up Favors, D harris, Murphy, Williams, and picks in hopes of getting back Melo + Billips.

Melo is without question a superstar. The only question is whether is on the same level as Lebron, Kobe or Wade and the anwer is no. He will score, even on bad shooting nights. He has a high bball IQ, although he tends to press to score on a team where that second option changes nightly. Where he falls short of the others is that they will carry there teams on the offensive AND defensive ends in the 4th quarter. Melo would be a great addition but I feel he would fit best in a system where he shares the burden. Is that the Nets? No. But if they kept Lopez and enough talent around them, he could make Lopez that player. Anyone who watched Lopez last year saw the effort and drive that he has. Melo, Lopez, Williams and the other young talent that would need to be kept could challenge in the east in a couple of years.

I wouldn't include B-Lo in a package deal for anyone other than Kobe, Durant, Wade, or Lebron. The Nets have not had a dominant big man in years and this guy is only getting better! Every solid NBA team has a quality center, we need to hold onto Brook. If we lost Brook and got Carmelo it would be a minimal upgrade and we would be back to square one. Don't forget, we would have to include other players and/or draft picks with Brook in order to get Melo...totally not worth it.

First of all, Gosh. second of all, good point I stand down

haha not what I was expecting after your text. There were people posting saying Carmelo is not a winner, which I disagree with. The Nuggets won 17 games the year before they got him, 43 his rookie year. LeBron, playing in a weaker conference, has gotten further than Melo once.

to be honest I'm not exactly sure what your argument is if it's the fact that melo would be better with our team completely then yes if you think it's not Melos fault that they aren't going deep in the playoffs then according to the stats it's not then again I didn't 'watch' the game so I can't judge that, I also don't know the other players' stats so I can't make an argument

Yeah, it is a solid team, but solid teams don't win championships. Solid teams make the playoffs. Solid teams can get lucky and make the conference Finals. Look at the low post players that have won titles this decade. Garnett, Gasol, Shaq, Duncan. The only aberation would be the Pistons, but that was a fluky season when scoring averaged a little under 94 points a game.

@Dane you put up a good argument and no denying that those stats are impressive, I would like to have Carmelo Anthony on my team, but I continue to disagree about Denver being a crappy team. melo is obviously the first banana so when you expect Kenyon and nene to start on spurs magic an lakers it's pretty outlandish because Dwight is a first banana Duncan is a first banana and pau is a second close first banana so you can't really say they're bad nene and Kenyon are solid players that get their job done a long with billups who knocks down shots to keep things open for other players, Chris Anderson does the little thing which is always important for a backup big man. abd then you have of course melo who makes shots he's big fast athletic shooter who can get in the lane that's a solid team.

Ugh, did you guys even watch the West Finals in '09? Sometimes I feel like you guys don't even watch the games you just look at stats.

Wilt Chamberlain once averaged 50pts 25rebs for a whole season, you know who won MVP that year? Bill Russell.

Its not just about stats, this isn't baseball. Go watch the Nuggets playoff games the past 2 years and try and tell me he isn't a superstar.

But since you guys love the stats so much:

Versus Jazz '10

Game 1: 18-25, 42pts 5rebs 4ast
Game 2: 9-25, 32pts 6rebs 4ast 3 stls (14-15 from FT line)
Game 3: 11-21, 25pts 7rebs 2ast 2 blks
Game 4: 13-26, 39pts 11rebs 1 ast 4 stls
Game 5: 7-19, 26 pts 11rebs 3ast 3 stls (12-15 FTs)
Game 6: 6-22, 20 pts 12rebs 5asts 2stls (8-10 FTs)

Every time he had a subpar shooting game he took it to the lane to get FTs, which he made.

In my opinion Lopez can not be traded. Honestly I am against any trade for Carmello Anthony unless it becomes a "steal."

I am also lead to believe the Nuggets are in the market for a big man due to injuries. I am sure they are going to want size somewhere in a deal for Anthony.

look, I would do this the easy way

Nuggets get: Harris, James, and T-will. plus 2 picks
by doing this you give the nuggets a point who can run the team, and if plays well could be good mid-season trade bate for younger talent. James has showed glimses, but it was in summer league, so they are getting a fifty fifty on a young foreward ( possibly to replace melo ) t-will would be the center piece of the deal, he brings them a 2 gaurd to build around.

Nets: Melo, and Kenyon Martin.
In this the nets get the face of the franchise in melo, and an all-star foreward to pair with lopez. then theres k-mart, he brings the nets a hard working veteran who was a center piece of both eastern conference championship teams. he also brings a mentor for favors. this would make the fans pack up the pru. we all know the nuggets will try to dump a salary ( either j.r or k-mart ) i prefer k-mart because of his history with the nets.

mello is an elite player and the best scorer in the NBA in my opinion, brook is a good young center with week defense slow footwork and he is a bit of a sook yes you do the trade, bring anderson in the deal and that gives you a defensive center a scoring pf in Murphy, mello at sf, morrow to stretch the defense at sg farmer at the point don't know about him yet and a very deep bench with outlaw being instant offense and we keep favours to step up when he is ready

PEOPLE WHO THINK THE NETS SHOULD GIVE THE DENVER NUGGETS B. LOPEZ FOR MELO, DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT BASKETBALL!They look at the Nets record and thing that Brook is over rated, well if you watch the Nets last season,listen i don't blame you if you didn't, but if you did then you would have seen how Brook Lopez was double and triple team because the Nets was the worst outside shooting team in the league,now this year the Nets outside shooting, now you will see how good Brook Lopez really is!He will be and alstar,he has a good way about him, and he gets it, although he is only 22,if the Nets trade him they are not going to recover from giving him up,ask the charlotte bobcats how they pass him up in the draft, and the other teams also who pick ahead of the Nets,sometimes you have to look at the situation a player may be in, the system the coach run,for that team, for instance,Jordan Farmar was in a system that didn't utilize his skills,i think he will show you how good he can be, i am not saying that he is a starter but he won't hurt you if he had to start short term.

Trading Lopez for Anthony is stupid. Anthony is a one-dimensional player, and not an efficient one at that.

Other than scoring points, Melo doesn't do too much else (would more likely trade for a 3-point specialist such as Stephen Curry before I made a move for Melo). If anything, Nets should just hold out on the Melo deal, and go after Chris Paul.

Trade a package not including B. Lopez/T. Williams/D. Favors for CP3. Package can be D. Harris, T. Outlaw, and maybe Damion James or Quinton Ross OR 1-2 future picks. Nets roster would then have solid inside/outside with:

PG: Chris Paul
SG: Terrence Williams
SF: Anthony Murrow
PF: Derrick Favors
C: Brook Lopez

If Favors doesn't work out, you have Troy Murphy. Good roster? You'll have players wanting to join that next year.

@Dane-- If JR Smith is the worst 3pt shooter because of the number he misses each game, that would make Melo the 3rd worst overall shooter in the NBA.

hbj, its funny you think that Kenyon Martin should start over Rashard Lewis and Tim Duncan, the latter being the best PF of all time, and that Nene should start over Dwight Howard. Chris Andersen is a good BACKUP. Kleiza is a bench player, just like Anderson. JR Smith is arguably the worst 3 point shooter in the league when you factor in that he shoots 6 a game and only makes 2.

I think Lopez is good but a little overrated. Maybe he'll be a top 5 center but overall, maybe never an elite player. It's hard to hold 12 wins against him but at the same time, great centers, even young ones, don't allow their teams to lose 70 times in a season. Because they can impact so many areas of the game, they can be responsible for a lot of wins during the regular season. For Lopez to be a part of so many losses I think says something about him.

nene and kenyon martin could start on the magic and spurs. kenyon martin started on a team that went to the finals twice. he is also a one time all star. chris anderson is an excellent defensive center. that guy kleizer was good coming off the bench as well. j r smith has his moments. not to mention chauncey billups and his championship experience. melo had plenty of help. he had a decent enough team for the past 5 years to get out of the first round...

OH , HELL YEAH! I would give Lopez for Melo.

i notice some pretty long comments, so imma keep it short. Great Question!

I don't get where this idea of Carmelo not being a winner is. Name one player on the Nuggets that would be starting on the Lakers, Celtics, Magic, or Spurs. Maybe Billups, who has only been for what, 2 years? And they went to the Finals one of those years.

They don't have low post scoring, they don't have a good distributor (Billups has finished Top 10 in assists twice, and neither time was with Denver), and they don't have good shooters. All they have is rebounding and interior defense, and that didn't help much against the Lakers in '08, when Pau Gasol tore apart the Nuggets with a double double pretty much every night, including a 17-17.

Did you see the points numbers he was putting up against the Jazz this year? Nuts. Too bad he is on a crappy team. He was the LeBron James of the West.

Nets don't need to offer Lopez to get Melo, they just need to have the best offer. No other team is offering anyhone near Lopez so why would the Nets? Favor's, Outlaw, Humphries and 2 #1's is better than anything Houston, NY or Orl could offer. The Clip's have assests, but would he sign the extension. Personally, I would be OK with letting this roster play and seeing what they could do (need to if Outlaw is in the deal anyway). Having Melo is great, only at the right price.

@hbj725 You're not wrong but there just arent many players that fit what you're saying and he's a hell of a player. Also, it's not like the Nets would be giving up any "winners" . Cap room, isnt it meant to be spent and spent on a stud? Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Kobe, Dirk, Boozer, etc are out the window. If we cant get anyone to come to New Jersey by free agency then by trade is the way to do it and this is the big fish out there. Im not going to wait 2 years to get to Brooklyn to start getting stars to this team. Also if all he wants it a 3 year extension then that would be perfect because if it doesnt work our, its not a SEVEN year deal and in those 3-4 years I bet he's better than what the Nuggets get from Harris-TWill, etc (just NOT Lopez)

At $22 million per year (which *someone* will give him), why would we trade anything for Melo? Let the Knicks cripple their team with his salary-- they're experts at that sort of foolishness.

@ hbj725 - Melo led Syr to a national championship in college, showing far more "killer instinct" than Lebron or KD have ever shown. No doubt he's no Kobe or Wade, but he's shown way more than KD.

If I'm the Nuggets I don't trade him for anything but a package that includes Lopez. Then in the end he can go to the Knicks or wherever else La La wants him to go (don't, even for a NY minute, think that Carmelo is in charge of any aspect of this whole thing)and take what they might have to offer which in the end won't be what the Nuggets offered because of the new CBA. The negative about Melo - besides also trading for Yoko...er...I mean La La is that you're not getting any kind of leader, you're getting an individual scoring machine not terribly concerned with any team concept but concerned with his own stats, and Melo and Lopez will still not get the Nets past The Celtics or the Heat. Melo to the Nets would be a bad idea and a waste of time and money

@ Adrian- I dont think "the winner argument" can ever be blown out of proportion. Their are certian players who have a mentality and drive that helps them to prevail over opponents. They have that killer instinct. Kobe has it. Wade has it. Lebron has it (sometimes). Durant is even starting to show it. I am not saying melo doesnt have this. He just hant shown it if he does. So do the nets as an organization want to take a chance on him when he is going to eat up so much of our cap space? And as far as the nuggets playing in the west as opposed to the east, they have lost to lesser opponents most of those times. I like melo. I just dont think he is worth the money and players we would have to give up to get him...

if lopez is the difference between getting Melo through trade or not getting him then the Nuggets can kiss my ***. lol. no way i give up Lopez and its not like it would be a 1 for 1 the Nuggets are still going to want drafts picks and another player to even out the contracts and stuff.

The whole point of getting Melo is to team him up with our Young core if we trade our best core member then how is that gonna help us.

I rather just stick with the team we have now and hopefully make a run at making the playoffs this year and go into free agency with the $18 mil we will have in cap space . Hey maybe the Nuggets get to greedy and end up not trading him and he will be available as a free agent. little optimism there

This wont happen but it would work for the 3 teams:
-To Charlotte: Billups
-To Denver: Devin Harris, Terrence Williams, Erick Dampier, 1 first round pick
To New Jersey: Carmelo Anthony, Dj Augustine, Chris Anderson

Charlotte gets a leader to get them to the next step, Denver gets a PG they can play at SG if they want to play Lawson and Harris in the backcout together at times, a good SF and cap room (Dampier) and NJ gets the big prize, a young PG to backup Farmar for now and a type of enforcer since Lopez isnt the toughest guy out there.

@hbj725

We can all agree that it is more difficult to get to the Finals in the East than in the West right?

The Cavaliers dont smell the Finals in the West and he Nuggets wouldve given the Celtics and Magic a run for their money in the East

The "winner" argument is blown out of proportion. I dont think our successful Nets and the good Pistons wouldve made the Finals in the West having to beat the Spurs, Lakers, Dallas BEFORE getting to the Finals.

@Gabe - I agree with your 2 offers tho I'd rather give up Harris than Murphy but because of salaries it seems Murphy would have to go. If that's the case I would like to get Chris Anderson back from the Nuggets for his rebounding and blocking - he's sick in that regard

Same thing happened when kobe wanted to be traded in 06. The bulls were willing to give up lou deng and others for kobe, but kobe declined the trade, knowing that without deng with him, he would be in a pretty bad situation in chicago. Anthony would have the same feeling, he wants to go to a team that has players in place, and while the nugs will try to get lopez, the nets should know their chances of keeping anthony after a trade go down if lopez isn't on the team

I dont think melo is a bad player. But he isnt a proven winner. Lets say we get melo. What does that mean? He has had good teams around him and he only got out of the first round once. Lebron hasnt one anything. But he has had success in taking his teams to the finals and conference finals several times. We cannot say that about melo and he has had better teams than lebron. I like melo, but i dont think he is what we need to win.

sorry i meant to use "break" not bold...

Melo isn't bad by any means. But he isn't worth Favors or Brook.

After thinking about what other teams have to offer heres what I would offer for Carmelo if Denver has to move him now:

Terrence Williams, Troy Murphy and 2 first round picks (not the warriors pick). Thats it. That should be the best offer. And no other team can really offer anything better right?

If Denver can wait 3 months then I would offer:

Travis Outlaw (bad contract though...), Hump, Terrence Williams, Damion James and the Warriors first round pick.

Did somebody really just say "if Rod Thorn were here?" Rod Thorn is the reason the Nets are stuck with a $7 million cap figure on a backup tweener forward and $3 million on a stiff center (both on multi-year deals). Without that type of dead weight the team spent three years clearing off, the Nets could offer Denver straight up salary relief by not having to send very much back in the way of salary, which also lessens the amount of talent they'd have to surrender. Outlaw's going to be a complete waste on this team with Anthony anyway, so unless Denver waits until December 15 and decides they actually want him, the Nets are fairly screwed by Thorn.

My worry with melo is that in 7 years, he has been out of the first round of the playoffs once. I know he has had individual success. But that has not translated into team success. If we are going to go after him, we are talking about paying a lot of money to a player that in 7 years hasnt shown he can be a leader of a successful team. Is this what we want for our team? Just something to think about...

Think how good our team could be if we could trade for billups and melo without giving up murphy, lopez, and Harris. Note that I realize this is impossible, but billups at pg. Harris at sg. Melo at sf. Murphy at pf. Lopez at c.

Extracted from WWW.OPPOSINGVIEWS.COM
Author: Hoops Karma
---------------------------------
I know some of you guys love this statistical analysis stuff. Enjoy!
---------------------------------

Math Nerds Pick On Anthony

In late-July, writer Michael Salfino used a wins produced formula that was created by two economists to explain that Anthony was only the 20th-best SF in the league in terms of wins produced, and he was considerably further down the list when you adjust for minutes played. Some fans thought this was total bunk since he averages 25 ppg for his career. Then others pointed out that he’s not a good rebounder, passer, or defender. And it’s not like he’s a particularly skillful scorer with a career 46% FG% and 31% 3FG%.

Well maybe these math guys don’t know what they’re doing and other math guys with other formulas would back-up Anthony’s place as an NBA great. No, it turns out that he ranks as kind of average on just about every advanced matrix that weighs players’ input on the outcomes of games (these are the formulas that look at how the team does when that player is in, regardless of that player’s stats). His career Offensive Rating and Defensive Rating are even at 107 (look under ‘Advanced’). For a player to be helpful to his squad, his ORtg should be higher than his DRtg. Considering the Nuggets have had a winning record every year he’s been in the league, there’s really no excuse for these two numbers to be the same.

Then I took a look at his Adjusted Plus/Minus over the past three years at Basketball Value (the only timeframe they have that data for). Going backwards in time, his yearly Adj +/- ratings have been 0.45, 4.41, and -5.29. Even if you’re not interested in the least as to what those numbers mean (it’s a player’s impact on a team’s scoring margin), recognize that only one of those scores is significantly above zero and their overall total is in the negative.

Harris nd favors would be rough of we don't get a pg in return

I don't think Billy King will be the point man on this huge deal. If he was, he would of cut his vacation in Turkey short.

f rod thorn was still here I would say no way is this happening but Billy king is making me nervous, we absolutely not trade lopez, Denver is not going to do well in this trade they should be lucky to get an even trade talent wise. they pretty much have to get rid of melo so we should offer a decent trade that they have to accept we cannot get excited and give Denver more than they deserve.

Brook Lopez's best stat for me, is games played. He plays every game.
The Nets need 3 star quality players. Lopez is one, Favors could be another. The best trade possible for the Nets would be to obtain Anthony without giving up Lopez or Favors. Harris was an all-star 2 years ago and is still young. But if we obtained Melo we would not need a score first PG. Trade Harris, James or T-Will, draft picks and Hump to make the money part work out. I would not trade Lopez or Favors. I would not make the trade at all. After all, you are allowed to say NO!

Okay, this is just me having a moment of understanding as to what potentially the Nets could be thinking if they would indeed trade every one (T Will, D Harris and others) on the roster and let’s say keeping Lopez. And lets say Lopez turns into a Paul Gasol type (poor mans) and lets say Melo is Kobe (maybe) It’s starts to make sense for me. The blueprint for success. I think people don’t realize enough that the blueprint for success is typically just copying off your neighbors paper and doing exactly what they did. So I am a believer I mean not counting this year with the Lakers because this team they have formed this year is amazing in some of there other championship years they had two outstanding talents and a lot of role players. So maybe just maybe this would work. Morrow can knock down opens If they keep Farmer we know he knows how to pay with a Kobe type. Although I wish the Nets would keep T Will I know he’s gone but if I was to buy into what the alternative is I’d say. Okay it could work. AG takes credit for this thank you,