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Nets Post-Up: Carmelo Anthony Trade’s Old and Young Factor

Nets Post-Up is a stream of consciousness post without editing. Luckily, the author can filter profanity, possesses excellent grammar, and isn’t lazy about spelling. Basically, he’s amazing.

As I’m sure you’ve all seen, Billy King and the Nets are once again coming to the table to try to deal for the elusive and desired Carmelo Anthony. Oh, and by Billy King and the Nets, I really mean Leon Rose, Anthony’s agent. You can check the details here from Mark, but the trade for Melo basically entails the Nets giving up Derrick Favors, Devin Harris, Troy Murphy, a couple of first-rounders, possibly Johan Petro and Anthony Morrow. In turn, we get the efficient scoring of Anthony, Chauncey Billups, and Richard “Rip” Hamilton. Umm, okay. I personally don’t like this trade although it’s probably the best one compared to previous alleged offers. However, why would the Nets want to get old like this?

I get it, the Nets stink and I’m level-headed enough to admit it. I mean, it’s kind of empirical if you watched last night’s game against the Washington Wizards! My kid, who roots for the Nets when they’re not playing the Celtics, was filled with that child-like optimism thinking that the Nets could come back after a horrendous first quarter, but being an adult with enough jaded experiences in life, knew they wouldn’t. Sometimes I think the front office acts the same way my kid did… kind of delusional.

If Billy King and company really think that Carmelo Anthony is going to make enough of a difference with the current roster or a new one that includes a 32 (Rip) and 34-year-old (Billups) and no bench, well, that to me is equivalent to taking a trip to the Joshua Tree out west and shrooming it up. Granted, Billups’ contract is up after this season and Rip’s has two years and $25 million left, which will come off the books in time for a potential Chris Paul free-agency run, but I still think it’s a bad deal, relatively a good one, sure, compared to aforementioned Melo deals, but bad nonetheless.

I guess I’m old-fashioned in believing that if you have a good organization and a good coach, you can actually develop players. Imagine that! I know that that’s supposed to be done in college, but we all know that college ball is all about money and preparing players to make more money. A good number of coaches don’t care about their players’ development knowing that said super-talented player will leave after a year anyway. No longer do you have deep connections that you’ve seen in the past of players with coaches such as Dean Smith, Louie Carnesecca, Bobby Knight, the late John Wooden and all of the old greats. Well, there’s Mike Krzyzewski actually. However, you get my drift.

In any case, mixed with developing young talent, you need some veterans and using free agency is a good way to add some leadership and experience, hopefully more of the former. Billups is undoubtedly a leader and could help a team, but his time will be up come April and he can sign anywhere. Will the Nets re-invest in a 34-year-old point guard? Billups is no Jason Kidd or Steve Nash and a recent surge since coming back from injury aside, Billups has been having a bad season. Do I think he can turn things around? Definitely… if he stays with the Nuggets where there are some nice complementary pieces and a competent back-up point guard. I’d just rather not bother with Billups and even moreso, Hamilton. I’ve been a fan of Rip since his UConn days, but think that he’d be more effective as a bench scorer as just a perimeter guy. I’m not knocking perimeter guys because Ray Allen is awesome, but Hamilton is no Jesus, which is appropriate since he won’t save any franchise moving forward in his career.

That all said, I do like Melo, but not at the price the Nets are paying. If the team could keep Harris and/or Favors instead of trading them, I’d love this trade. I know, I’m being selfish and dreaming in thinking that a professional basketball team would actually give in to my whims. But, hey, if Masai Ujiri and Josh Kroenke can do it, why can’t I?

I don’t think the Nets will get to the playoffs if this trade goes down. The Nets are in too deep of a hole and the team would be giving up too much as to not have a good rotation going. And if you say this trade is for the future of the Nets, well, other than Melo, it really isn’t. Billups and Hamilton are burdens in this trade for the Nets just so they can get Melo. We all know this, especially since Billups will be gone in a few months and Hamilton after another full season at a bad value.

All of the eggs are in the Melo basket and with better talent, he never got past the first round in six of his seven seasons. I know it’s an old argument and perhaps overused, but it is what it is. When a team has Melo as its main man, nothing great will happen. Good, sure. Very good, I’ll buy it. Great, no way. And guess what, Melo knows it too. Why do you think he is demanding to be joined by other star players wherever he ends up?

I’ve followed basketball for a long time (a quarter of a century) and I know championship teams can’t just have one superstar and that’s it to win. Teams with rings need a complementary star and excellent role players as well. The exception may be Billups and Hamilton’s championship Pistons team as they didn’t have any superstars by the regular world’s definition, but had the aforementioned duo, the best defensive player in Ben Wallace, and great role players. My way of thinking, and I’m sure a lot of people will disagree with me, I don’t think Melo is a superstar. Superstars take teams on their backs and hold themselves accountable for every bad thing that happens. And when good things happen? They praise their teammates. For all intents and purposes, Anthony wants to leave his current teammates and they haven’t even won anything. Ever.

So, I’ve been doing a lot of complaining and crapping on this trade proposal and it has to be asked. What the hell would I do then? Go young. Young teams such as the current Nets squad stink. It’s just natural. But, eventually, these young guys get a solid season or two under their belts and get better. I truly believe it can happen here.

Brook Lopez has had an easy going of it in his development, but has hit a rough patch this season, which I think he can overcome and only be better for it – developmentally and mentally. Anthony Morrow is getting his opportunities and has the talent and easy-going demeanor to get better and not let anything get him down. And a big reason I don’t like any Melo trade, Favors has shown some really great ability in establishing position, a willingness on both man and help defense, athleticism for days, and a blue collar attitude despite being a subject of trade rumors since he took the floor in a Nets practice jersey. This young trio is a great base to build around – a player who has been mentioned as one of the best up-and-coming bigs, one of the best three-point shooters of all-time, and the youngest player in the league who compares favorably to Dwight Howard and Kevin Garnett (fouls aside).

Theoretically, the Nets have five first round draft picks in the next two NBA Drafts, but considering the protection factor for the Golden State Warriors (lottery-protected in 2011, top 11-protected in 2012) and Houston Rockets (lottery-protected in 2012), the only realistic additional first round pick will be the Los Angeles Lakers’ 2011 first round pick (top 18-protected). Currently, the Nets would pick fifth in the draft and if trades, particularly this Melo trade, don’t come through, it’s realistic the Nets will pick in the top five through eight spots. And if karma decides to be good to the team after last year’s draft lottery torture, maybe the Nets will have the first overall pick! Okay, probably not… well, hopefully. So, which youngster would be available and fit the Nets as currently constructed?

Kentucky’s star freshman Terrence Jones will likely be available with the Nets first pick in the first round. He’s a 6’8″ wing that can slash to the hoop, hit the mid-range jumper, finish at the rim and in transition, an excellent passer, solid NBA-ready body and never stops. If I’m the Nets, he’s the dream choice, especially considering how four and five heavy the draft will likely be.

If the Nets get a pick in the latter half of the lottery, UCLA’s Tyler Honeycutt fits. He’s 6’8″ with a smooth athletic game. Honeycutt has excellent mechanics on his shot, a long wingspan, is slippery around the rim, intense, and has the tools to be an excellent defender.

And while he’s dropped due to high expectations unfulfilled, Harrison Barnes, the preseason top freshman and even AP All America first-teamer (talk about expectations) will be amongst the top picks. There’s some talent there with the Nets’ first pick in the first round and I’d be happy with any of the three above, particularly Jones whom I think can make an immediate impact in the NBA.

So, with the second pick from the Lakers, who will be available? The pick will probably be 25th or higher, but there’s still some intriguing picks. A pair of point guards come to mind immediately and both are playmakers. Brandon Knight, Kentucky’s other big frosh recruit, can put the ball in the basket at a legit lead guard height (6’3″) can create for others nicely and was considered one of the top players during his prep career. Duke’s Nolan Smith, also 6’3″ with long arms, is more of the traditional passing point guard and possesses both a high basketball IQ and pedigree (Oak Hill Academy and Duke). He’s not a spectacular player but solid overall and would be able to run an NBA team from a bench position right away.

Obviously, there is still a lot of time in order to assess the draft, but the aforementioned are very good players and would add to a young Nets team. Will they stink again in the 2011-12 season? Maybe, but just like the constant Melo trade rumors, who knows? I think it’s worth the shot to try to build from the inside with a solid base of players, as opposed to putting it all on one with the hope of getting Chris Paul. Hope only got the Nets so far during the magical 2010 summer of free agency.

Melo is a money-grab in order to sell tickets for the Nets’ future home in Brooklyn. But, I guarantee that that arena will be rocking regardless during the first season, maybe even the second… just in time for that young group to have matured and earn the borough’s love. Maybe even the NBA’s.

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I have stuck with this team over the past two years, was excited about the new ownership, and more than willing to give King and Avery their chance. I was disappointed about not getting Wall, but excited about Favors' potential. I was not surprised when the big free agents went elsewhere, and content to watch the building of an interesting young team with a couple of good young bigs, a versatile sophomore, T-Will, who looked dominant at times late in his rookie year, some interesting trade chips (including Harris) and a boatload of draft picks.

But it's been all downhill since then. They give up on T-Will a couple of months into the regime, and now they're going to trade Favors and nearly all of their draft assets, while getting suddenly old to bring in one scorer?

I am pretty close to done with this team. This regime has completely turned me off in the space of six months.

Great work, guys.

I think I'd rather trade Brook Lopez than Favors for another legit NBA player just by observing the way Avery Johnson is playing Lopez. When do you see your best player play less than 20 minutes... and watching the game vs Bucks was horrible, but looking at Favors... he really impressed me when he had the ball, despite some bad shots that he had to take because of some bad pass selection from other Nets.
KEEP FAVORS!

And what to do with Travis Outlaw... He isn't meant to start... put Graham at the 3 and Sasha at the 2.

Which reminds me... I hope the Nets get rid of Graham... the guy shoots no better than a high school player, and doesn't defend like Avery Johnson and everyone else believes he does. He's so sluggish, always get beat by other 2s, and that always results in faster fouls and fts...

And Ben Uzoh needs his own coach... Loses the ball too much. He works hard, but tries to do things he can't do like beating people off the dribble.

Ben Uzoh is competent--he just was trying too much the last few games. He is a keeper though-especially since he is basically paid nothing.

Stephen Graham is a good energy guy and has won the starting gig due to working hard. Starting Graham is not a long term solution, obviously. Damion James, and Anthony Morrow would have the nod over Graham if they were healthy.

Travis Outlaw is terrible though... He needs to build muscle and work on his ball handling. But his value is also low due to the fact that his skill-set is better utilized when playing alongside a true point guard. For example, Travis Outlaw would be great playing along with Chris Paul (...but who wouldn't...). The point is, he has value, just not in this system with these players. But I agree, he is playing horridly lately.

We could look to trade Lopez for Carmelo straight up (might have to add Troy Murphy for salary)... I would be more comfortable doing that than adding all these draft picks, Harris, and Favors in a trade for Melo.

Maybe we could also get the Nuggets to take on Outlaws salary in exchange for Kenyon Martin (large expiring) and Al Harringtons' (lengthy) contracts. It would be a wash financially but would help the Nuggets save money today and give them at least an option to develop Outlaw--Harrington is owed slightly less money over the same amount of time but is very old. But in this scenario I think we would need to offer a draft pick.

Does anyone know exact information of all the draft picks we are due over the next 3 years? I was trying to keep track of everything and create a mock draft with future prospects but I wanted to make sure I had the right information.

That said, I know I am missing information about certain restrictions--so please let me know what I have wrong. This is how I understand our draft assets.

2011
+Nets have their own lottery bound pick (probably top 5)
+Nets received the LA Lakers first round pick [Sasha Vujacic three team trade] (probably 23-26)

+Nets have their own second round pick (mid second round)
+?Nets received Warriors' second round pick [restructuring of Marcus Williams trade??]

2012
+Nets have their own first round pick (likely mid first round or lottery regardless of what we do)
+?Nets received the Warriors' top 11 protected first round pick (projects to be a high lottery pick)
+Nets received the Rockets lottery protected first round pick [Sasha Vujacic three team trade] (projects to be a mid first round pick)

+?Nets receive the Heat's second round pick [Chris Quin trade] (projects to be one of the last 3 picks of 2012 draft)
-Nets send their own second round pick to the Lakers [Sasha Vujacic three team trade]

This has nothing to do with the post but i just never understood why the nets never hired one of the nba's great centers to help brook with his development....kareem helped bynum, hakeem helped yao and dwight and ewing helped dwight we definetly should bring someone in to work with brook i mean he is our franchise player at this point.

Your article rings even louder if there is a LOCKOUT. Imagine an old man Rip Hamilton and Chauncey with a frustrated Carmelo Anthony winning 30 games in 2012...

We would have zero draft picks developing either..

You couldn't have said it better Dennis. We need to go young!

Bad trade for the Nets. Even if Melo signs the 3 year extension. I think Avery and Melo are a match made in hell. Avery was a bad signing. Proky is full of sh..... about the five year thing. It might take them 7 years if they keep all their picks but if they make this trade it will not happen at all.

Oh and the GS pick is now 2012 (protected 1-7). I agree that Golden State is good enough for Nets to be picking late in the lottery. Don't overpay for Melo. PR: Fans won't get excited to watch a mediocre team with a so called "Superstar".

Melo would help! The Nets are dying for a wing who can create his own offense. However giving up Favors and a closet full of first round picks is fools gold. For one, the Nets would have half of their salary at the small forward position. Billups and Rip are past their prime. They might be able to create a spark for a title contender, but I doubt that they would have much to offer a team struggling to get the 8th seed. No draft picks nor cap room: How do you complete the rest of the rotation that is necessary to compete for a deep run in the playoffs, nevermind a championship?

Favors looked great starting tonight, and he's only 19, imagine how much more his game could develop by his early 20s. I really like him, and think he will be have a Kevin Garnett type career--potentially talented enough to bring a team a ring if you put the right pieces/weapons around him.

HOWEVER, this nets team needs change. Devin Harris and Jordan Farmar are both me first pass later scorers, the nets need a pg to consistently feed their bigs the ball inside, clearly neither of those two are our long term answer at the position. At some point we've gotta stop waiting for something to happen, and make it happen with a trade.

I think the best case scenario is one in which we ship out picks/harris/murphy for an established pg and leave lopez and favors together in the front court. Carmelo costs too much and won't have his heart in it if he plays in new jersey, but there are plenty of other players out on the trade market who could improve our longterm look.

i agree except for the trade, the Nets are gonna have a top pick in the upcoming draft the way they are playing and they could have a chance at drafting a PG like Kyle Irving or getting a SF with great potential like Perry Jones, Terrence Jones, or Harrison Barnes i dont want them to trade there next year 1st round pick

If you're in the Melo to Jersey camp or not it doesn't matter. Melo is not coming to Jersey, he will sign with the Knicks at the end of the season in a sign-n-trade.

All this trade talk is just dumb and made to sell papers and get traffic to internet sites.

Denver will hold on to him in the hopes that a magical playoff run will change his mind and if it doesn't then all these offers will still be available at the end of the season. They'll be there because Melo doesn't want to walk away from the $65MM so he will make it a condition of his signing that the team (the Knicks) must do a sign-n-trade so he can get his money.

I think the Nets will get the GS pick this year, they are just outside of the lottery but have played much better recently since Curry returned. As for Houston, who knows but at the moment they appear to have too much talent not to have a decent team in 2012.

Love the article, 100% agreement. Its frustrating to think of them even considering giving up so much for Anthony. The Florida Marlins gutted their team and won the world series twice by building a team as you described here. Its amazing what can be done when you stockpile future assets. If they keep these draft picks, the draft will be one of the highlights of my sports season. Only other hope I have for the season is to see Favors and James develop (and no lockout of course).

One thought about the Nets making these efforts... I really hope its posturing for the sake of public perception and that they know this is not going to happen. If not, then we just have to hope Anthony will be our savior in a different way. By refusing to ever sign an extension here, he'll keep the Nets from making a huge mistake. He's a great player but that price tag is far, far too high.

hamilton contract runs thru 2012-2013

dennis , i love you. please contact me so i can buy you a nice dinner. thanks

if this trade i know that the nets send harris, favors, 2 1st round picks and possibly morrow to denver... petro, murphy to detroit, and the nets get rip, billups, and melo, but from all the rumors i've heard the trade talks have died pretty much because the piston would prolly hav to give up there 1st round pick which since they are at 11-24 right now that pick will prolly be a lottery pick.

I'm guessing that pick would prolly go to the Nuggets and not the Nets but if it were to go to the Nets i'd be alright with this trade. but i havn't been able to find who gets the pick i'm just guessing its the Nuggets

Most of the trade scenarios have been awful but at least this one makes some sense... Probably has a lot to do with Billy King not driving the bus on this one...

It's not great but its the best of the lot... Billups and Rip are capable at their positions and better than anything we currently have. I love Devin but it's clear he has let this whole trade mess get to him and needs a change of scenery. And I seriously need Nets fans to stop talking about Morrow... He's a fine 3 point shooter but not much else... And he doesn't hit the 3 with enough consistency (now that he has been given more opportunities) to warrant a nearly "untouchable" status some have given him.

We are stuck with 2 awful contracts, Outlaw (who is completely untradeable) and Petro (who is NEARLY untradeable).. If we could get rid of one that alone makes the deal worthwhile.

I'm opposed to trading Favors but have resigned myself to the fact that it is likely going to happen (for Melo or someone else)..

If this trade went down we'd keep Humphries and Lopez and have a decent starting 5... Outlaw would revert to a bench player (where he has been most successful) and Farmer, James (when healthy) and others could fill in the gaps... Hamilton and Billups, along with Melo would take away the stress of double and triple teams and Brook and we'd probably see him pick up the other 3 on most nights..

In two years we have plenty of cap space to get Paul and couple with Melo and Lopez...as well as fill in the gaps for the rest of the roster...In fact probably fill in the gaps better than a team like the over leveraged Heat would...

Anyway, if this has to go down I'm voting for this trade...

LOL...Maybe Leon Rose will save us from Billy King and Prokhorov !

Makes sense if Carmelo is really coming here, that Melo and his "people" would want to have the best team available for him. A 17 player trade is almost 4% of the entire NBA rosters. It would be like a trading a whole team, plus two ! Crazy !!!

All you Nets fans like to lose and HOPE we develop and get better. There are no guarantees to that. Carmelo is guaranteed to be good. Say he's a volume shooter, say he's not a leader, but the fact is, he IS a superstar. That's why most people consider him to be one. You know he's a good player when the Nuggets don't want him to go! So we probably have two early playoff exits with Carmelo. We are going to build around him in years to come. Let alone we'll watch our team win some games in the process. He will be our cornerstone. Players like this aren't available often.

With what bench? What draft picks? What money? Losing Favors, Harris, possibly Morrow and now our other young players? What kind of future is that? And with the HOPE of signing Chris Paul in 2012? And the extension is only for three years for Melo. If the Nets still stink and exit during the first round, you think he'd want to stick around?

People today don't have the patience to wait and develop a team. They pay good money for their tickets and want to be entertained. The Nets are convinced that they need a player of Carmelo's magnitude and persona to set them up in Brooklyn. The Nets also fear the Knicks. I love the Nets, but I know it's not my team. I also love the Mets and see them do stupid things all the time. Another thing to keep in mind, rich people love money and they don't like losing it ! It has been said for years, that teams in NYC area don't have the luxury of building slowly, they must build quickly, and maybe that's true. And maybe that is why NY teams spend more money and make more deals, and still end up with some terrible teams.

We didn't win in the early part of the millenium because of Jason Kidd alone. We landed Kidd for Starburry. We also landed Richard Jefferson and Kenyon Martin. Those three combined are what put us in a position to contend. Not just Jason Kidd! Developing slow and hoping you get better is how you build a title contender.

Carmello is 28 years old. Billups is on his last legs. Who do we draft when we give up all of our picks? You're basically praying you land a Rondo kind of draft pick, to replace Harris. By the time you have the pieces in place around Melo, he's either left for greener pastures, or he's too old to dominate.

If you get Melo for a couple of draft picks and some expiring contracts, great! That's what happened when we got Vince Carter. If you have to give up a 19 year old PF with a Dwight Howard kind of a cieling, and All-Star PG, and multiple first round picks, you're dooming yourself.

Yes, we'll make the playoffs. Big whoop! We're not going to beat the Heat, Celtics, Magic, or Bulls, even in the East, let alone the Thunder, Lakers, and Spurs.

You build with guys like Favors and Lopez. You draft guys like Kyrie Irving. You trade Harris now while he's still in his prime, for another young star, who can up with these guys (think Monta Ellis). You use the rest of those draft picks on depth players like Kemba Walker.

Suddenly just 2 years from now the Nets look more like this:

PG: Kyrie Irving - 21 years old, Jordan Farmar 28 years old
SG: Montal Ellis - 27 years old, Kemba Walker 22 years old, Tony Mitchell - 19 years old
SF: Damion James - 25 years old, Travis Outlaw 27 years old
PF: Derrick Favors - 21 years old, Kris Humphries - 26 years old?
C: Brook Lopez - 24 years old, Tyler Zeller - 22 years old

That team I just layed out contends for a decade or more, just like the Spurs Dynasty. The proposed Melo teams, never ever contend. They might make the playoffs, but that isn't contending. Carmello is not the answer, unless we get him for free. It'd be great to add him, and I'd love to add a max money kind of superstar. But, the fact is, you don't build around 28 year old players. You build around youth, and add the superstar to put you over the top. Even the Celtics needed a miracle prize in Rajon Rondo to have success with their low dollar heist of draft picks and Al Jefferson for KG and Ray Allen. They also already had Paul Pierce. You're not going to pull off what the Heat did, and trying to do so, is a foolish endeavor. Oh yeah, they already had Dwyane Wade.

Selling the Farm for Melo is like selling your house for a Lotus. Sure it's a high priced sports car, that handles nice, but it won't keep you warm in the winter, you won't be able to afford the insurance on it, and in all honesty, there are a lot better sports cars anyway.

Why not keep the house, keep on investing, and eventually, you'll get that new hot sports car that everyone wants when it hits the market and you're actually ready for it! You also get to keep your house and can still afford a nice TV.

Keep building strong, Nets! Slow and steady! There is no need to over extend into a bad situation that will set us back a decade.

Carmelo's 26 years old not 28

I agree though build the team, i live in CT and a UCONN fan so i would love kemba to be a Net, hopefully he would do better than marcus williams and josh boone cuz i was pumped wen they drafted them 2

I know he's 26. I'm saying he'll be 28 by the time you have anything around him.

Just a typo, based on passion, of not wanting these rumors to be true.

I just look at it, as if we're counting on Chris Paul coming along, 2 years from now, and making moves to prepare for that I'm just flabbergasted. 2 years is a long time, and who knows what will be the case when that time comes. Plus, we don't get any other pieces of note to add in the draft, unless we somehow strike second round gold. This entire scenario is just messy, and destined to fail.

I been reading another blog today, and they talk about this trade like their in a no holds barred fantasy basketball league !

"Trade this guy for that guy, then trade this guy for two of those guys, then trade these five guys for those five guys, mix and stir, pop into microwave, and presto, you got a winning basketball team, in sixty seconds !

ya, i dont want the nets to be good from a team they build, what i wanna see is pretty much what u said
some kinda team like this in 2 years,
PG: Kyrie Irving - 21 years old, Jordan Farmar 28 years old
SG: Montal Ellis - 27 years old, Kemba Walker 22 years old, Tony Mitchell - 19 years old
SF: Damion James - 25 years old, Travis Outlaw 27 years old
PF: Derrick Favors - 21 years old, Kris Humphries - 26 years old?
C: Brook Lopez - 24 years old, Tyler Zeller - 22 years old

dont really want melo, he doesn't even want to really be a net and he'll prolly leave us after the 3 year extention is over

typo i meant i want the nets to be good from a team they build

Man, that was a great post JDoc !

I sure wish I could right as well as you...

P.S. I think Anthony is 26 years old, but I still agree with your overall thinking on this matter !

oops I meant "write as well", but "right as well" works in this case too ! (LOL)

I think this is a fantastic post and right on the money.

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  1. [...] announcement? Nets fans are exhausted! It’s no secret how I feel about all of this, preferring to go young heading into Brooklyn, even writing an open letter to Billy King, the Nets GM. However, it seems [...]

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