Nets Are Scorching

@Nets101

Yes, teams are lining up for the opportunity to trade for Outlaw and Petro

Lets sign both Humphries and West...Love those big men, can never have enough of them.

They we sign Kirilenko and then find ourselves another SG and backup center...

Just something to think about, as much as I like Marion, Hump had a more effective jumpshot this past season. And as valuable as Marion looked at times (guarding LeBust during crunch time), he had the worst +/- for any of the Dallas players that were in the rotation. I'd take Hump over Marion.

@hbj725

I don't know why you chose Shawn Marion to take offense to. I also mentioned Kendrick Perkins. He was simply an enforcer/rebounder/defender on the Celtics. Hump can clearly fill that role.

And again, with Deron (bum wrist Deron) Hump was putting up between 15 and 20 a night (and 15 rebounds).

And again-again, we don't know the new CBA or what any contracts will look like, so we don't know what 7/Year or 4-5/Year even means. Those are just random numbers. Also, Brandan Haywood got a 6 year 55 million dollar deal for the Mavericks, and is their backup C. That is because you need depth and quality on the front line. You don't want to start Hump? I would give him 7 to backup Nene (and I'd give Nene whatever he wanted).

I do agree with you about Nene though. He is, as you said, a beast.

@sad nets fan: you cannot compare hump to shawn marion. Marion is a player who can score the ball inside and out along with playing great defense and rebounding good fom the SF position. And yes, teams do need glue guys. BUT NOT AT 7 MILLION PER YEAR. Its not so much that I am citisizing Hump. I just think many nets fans are overrating him. I would love to have him back. Just not for a lot of the nets cap space. And certainly not as a starter because a starter he is not. Hump is woth about 4-5 million per as a backup PF. Anything more than that, let him walk.

As for NENE, I would love to have him as well. He is a beast. And playing with a real PG will make him that moe dangeous. The only problem is, i am hearing he loves denver. And there is a chance he will resign there...

I wouldn't be so quick to criticize Hump. The guy was playing in beast mode after Favors left. And it wasn't because he was on a bad team. I'd even say he's a better defender than West. And for all that talk that we can't win a championship with him starting, I disagree. He's a good 5th man. A guy that knows his role (something that he didn't know until last year) and plays to it. He's that Tyson Chandler or Derek Fisher at the PF spot.

With that said, he probably won't be 100% at the start of the season. And if he's honest with the reason he opted out, that being winning, than maybe the money and playing time are not the first priority. Who knows...maybe he's willing to come off the bench for Hump/Brook. If the salary cap increases dramatically (which is what the media is saying), then we'll have the money to get a starting SF/another big man in addition to resigning Hump. But there's too many possibilities to list without knowing what the CBA will look like.

@hbj725

I think I disagree with everything you just said hbj725. That contract year stuff about Hump doesn't have a ton of merit, considering his PER36 numbers have been equal to or better than this season his entire career. This is just the first time he has gotten more playing time.

Secondly, if Hump's shots all came on offensive put backs...GOOD! Deron is one of the best offensive PGs in the league, Morrow is a sharp shooter, Brooks won't be scared to shoot, and Lopez is one of the best offensive centers in the league...teams need glue guys, just ask Shawn Marion or Tyson Chandler (or Joel Anthony, or Udonis Haslem, or Joakim Noah, or Kendrick Perkins).

But, obviously, not ALL of Hump's points came on offensive put-backs. Just off what I saw (and I'm clearly no expert, and no one ever asked for my opinion) just in his first couple games with DWill it was clear that Hump was open for 10-12 foot jump shots (I call that shot "the Petro"). If he can practice those and sink them, that's all we need (besides for his best in the league rebounding and above average and getting better defense, and hustle and enthusiasm, not to mention he wants to be here, oh and he is fantastic in transition, I don't care if this is a run-on sentence.)

Next, I can imagine DWest and DWill in the pick and pop game, because that is what DWill and Lopez will look like (but way better, because Lopez is also fantastic in the post, except in passing out of doubles). The only thing is, DWest (by the most favorable estimation) won't be ready until November, which is weird, because it usually takes about 17 months (Nene) or two years for guys to really return from an ACL tear (I think he'll be 34 by then, and Deron will be playing somewhere else to escape a team that gave an albatross of a contract to an aging vet who doesn't rebound or play good defense and was coming off an injury, oh, and doesn't fit well next to Lopez.

Finally, just calling Hump a valuable backup doesn't mean anything, because most stats point to him trending towards a quality starting glue guy PF. But anyway, I want the Nets to get Nene, and ideally sign Hump as that quality backup you mentioned.

Oh, and the "good stats on a bad team" thing works for inefficient chuckers (Monta Elis for example) with high usage rates. But guys who are just playing within themselves, playing close to their career PER36, and clearly giving a ton of effort every night? That's a shaky argument.

Anyway, I won't pretend to know what Dwill knows and what Dwill wants, but I will say, that if I have the advanced statistics and game tape at my disposal, the Nets' management probably does too...so I imagine they are probably trying to re-sign Hump right now, or (I hope) Nene, and simply talk about DWest to raise his value for another team to sign.

@ Sad nets fan: Those offensive numbers of hump came on put backs. He has no post moves and no outside shot. And even with no outside shot, he continues to shoot them. getting 12 points on a bad team where hardly anyone else can score is not impressive. He was able to get those points and rebounds because the nets wee missing so much, that was more available offensive rebounds. D. West is an actual offensive weapon. he is somebody the opposing team has to guard. he is another option for dwill which makes dwill that more dangerous. Can you imagine dwill and dwest in the pick and roll game? Teams would not be able to stop it. You guys really give hump too much credit. He is a vey good backup PF at best. he is 26 yeas old and is just having his first decent season? C'mon you guys have to know basketball moe than this. Hump got these numbes on a bad team. and they werent even great numbers. they would good numbers. And he also got them in a contact year which is very questionable. Dwill knows this. That's why he probably wants west.

@ Sam: ofcourse you have to score more points than you allow. But you have to have scorers and a good defensive system to do that. We need more scoring. If you look at this year crop of fee agents and next years, there is little to nothing really available that the nets can use (thadeuss young, nick young and marcus thorton is not going to get it done). I would love Aaron Affalo, but he is a restricted fee agent. Denver is not letting him go. I would love Nene, but it is being said that he loves Denver and wants to stay. What other top unresticted free agents are there for us to sign? And as far as what lopez needs, he needs deron williams to be a net. And winning now will keep him with the nets. Adding veterans like west and prince will put us in position to compete for a championship now.

@ James: we cannot wait until 2012 to make a move to win. who knows where Howard is going to end up. We took the same chance in the summer of 2010 and we got no good free agents. We have to make moves now! Waiting until 2012 to exucute a plan B is too late. The plan should be to ty and get Howard this summer. If we cannot get Howard this summer, then we move on now. Dwight Howard is not our only solution to winning a title. we know this because he has been in the league 7 yeas and hasn't won anything. We cannot take chances on a superstar we don't have on our roster. We have to do what's necessary to keep the superstar we have now.

Bottom line, Hump as our starting PF is not going to keep Dwill here. And it sure isnt attacting any free agents. Hump is a back up PF. If we sign west for 8 mil, Hump and Prince for 5 mil a piece, it will fit unde our cap. You cannot tell me that adding a healthy West and Prince, with Dwill, Lopez and Morrow raining 3's would not win 50+ games and challenge for a title. That's a better starting 5 than chicago. Dwill took less talent than that to the western conference finals. Avery would get that squad to play defense.

Lets be clear. David West being available is Good News.
It means if Hump really wants to stay in NY area with Kim, he will have to come to Billy King with a lower offer. If Hump is significantly cheaper than West, then that could represent enough $ to sign another player such as AK47.

Also, Nets have more flexibility to sign Hump, because they can always go beyond the cap space, by the amount above Hump's cap hold ($6.4 million).

I just want to go through a couple of things:

1) "Granted, West is a better defender than Lopez (and Humphries, for that matter)"

How do you figure? By any advanced metric I can find they are extremely similar defensively (Hump is a little better in points scored per 100 possessions on/off court), except Hump is a deadly rebounder (which is a defensive statistic).

2) "The Nets already have one big who’s a talented scorer and sub-par rebounder in the starting lineup. Can they really get away with two?"

The answer is no. Let's look at total defensive rebounding percentage from our most recent season. The top teams were the Magic, Bulls, Hornets, Heat, Nuggets, Bobcats and Mavericks (with the Bucks, Spurs, Celtics, Hawks, and Sixers close behind). The bottom teams were Golden State, Washington, Phoenix, Utah, the Knicks, and the Raptors. Notice a trend? The top ones are almost all playoff teams; the bottom, not so much.

So, before we get into the important part, we already have a couple of reasons to not go after David West (bad defensively, kind of mirrors a lot of Brook's game, and is a bad rebounder). Now let's look at the important part. He is 31, he just had ACL surgery (Nene says it took about 17 months to really recover, here is the link: http://www.seattlepi.com/default/article/Inside-The-Nba-ACL-tear-takes-own-sweet-time-1232781.php) and he is a great offensive player who...played with Chris Paul!!! That doesn't mean his stats were inflated? Hump played with Deron Williams (bad wrist Deron Williams) from Feb 25th on...look at his numbers!

12-6, 13-11, 16-15, 18-17, 20-17, 11-16, 19-20, 16-15, 13-16...I'm not gonna write them all.

And yeah, Hump is younger, wants to be here, and will cost less...there is really an argument for the other side?

When you say "realistic target" (when referring to David West) is that aimed at the possibility of signing Nene? Obviously, Nene would command a higher salary than West -- especially coming off of reconstructive surgery -- but I don't know if it's fair to deem him as an unrealistic addition. The Nuggets want to bring him back, and reports have him interested in remaining with the team, but talks have slowed and it looks as if he'll test free agency.

I think the Nets' number-one target should be Nene. He's a superior player to West and Kris Humphries on both sides of the court. I'm of the opinion that the gap in production would justify the potential difference in compensation.

Even if Nene isn't an option, would it really behoove the Nets to go after a player whose style may not be well-suited playing next to Brook Lopez? Not to mention the fact that said player is coming off an injury that usually takes two years to fully recover from.

I think the first option at power-forward should be Nene and then Humphries. It seems like too big of a risk to give West what he'll likely command given the circumstances. Hopefully, King can convince Deron Williams of the same.

D-Will needs to understand the plan in place is to get D12. And if he doesn't come then it's time to move on to Plan B. You don't move onto Plan B before Plan A.

I dont think it was ever said that West CANT score inside, he just has a really good jumper which is worth mentioning (unlike Hump). Same price, I take West over Hump...but that wont be the case. For 7-9 million per year Im listening on West.

Billy King didnt sign Petro,Outlaw,Farmar so I just think we have to wait and see what Billy does in FA. I think he was bad in Philly but I think he has a better team (in the front office) helping and Im sure he's learned since his past experience/chance.

David West is the better player (than Hump). Someone mentioned he's similar to Brook but lets face it, one of the most realistic scenarios has Brook in Orlando and Dwight in Brooklyn so we'll see. Dwight/West/D.James/Brooks/DWill in 2012-2013? yessir. Again, that's West on a less than 10 million per contract. If he wants more coming off an ACL then yeah, he can go to the Pacers.

(I love Brook and I would love to keep him but Dwight is a beast inside)

I dont know if its possible but I would much prefer the Nets trade for Josh Smith (assuming they dont have to give up Lopez). Atl is probably more interested in draft picks than players since if they make Smith available it will be to cut payroll.

I think its pretty unlikley West opted out of a deal thats going to pay him $7.5 million to sign a contract where he makes $8 million. I would imagine he wants $10+ million. The bottom line is the Nets need to do whats best to ensure that DWill stays; if that is sign West then they should do it. I think its unlikely Howard ends up in NJ (but DWill would have a better idea than most). DWill isnt going to sign an extention unless he is positive that he is going to get some help. So if and hopefully when DWill signs an extention you will know that the Nets have someone else meaningful coming.

Also dont forget the Hornets want to resign Chris Paul so I think they will certainly make a strong effort to retain West as well (at a price above $7.5 million i would assume)

lets have all of our Big Men play 17 feet from the basket! We will never lose!!

@hbj725

"But in this league, you have to score."

No, in this league you have to be able to score more points than you allow. The Nets don't score enough but they also allow too many points.

I'm not really sure a '17 foot assassin' is what Brook Lopez needs to succeed. In fact, there's another guy who is something of a '17 foot assassin'- Brook Lopez. Having two players who are so similar, neither of whom are aggressive rebounders, is a negative.

The Nets money would be better spent on another front-court defender and a capable small forward to exile Travis Outlaw from the line-up permanently.

Yes lets sign a 31 year old coming off ACL surgery to a long term deal and completely ruin any chance we have of signing Howard. Sorry but I'll pass.

hey keep Gaines trade Farmer for future 2nd Round trade Outlaw and Petro for 2nd Round Cash considerations

Resign Kris and Vujacic

Chris Paul named David West the "17 foot assasin". Why? Beccause he has one of the best spot up mid range jumpers in basketball. That type of game perfectly compliments Lopez and Dwill. I know we will take a hit in rebounds. But in this league, you have to score. And Humphries in the starting lineup is not cutting it for our offense. We need a david west. It will help alliviate double teams off of lopez and Dwill.

We should be able to get west for about 8 million per year. That will leave us 11 million under the cap. If we got Tashaun Prince for 5 million a year, and re-signed hump to bring him off the bench, we are now automaticlly contending for a championship next year. Look at what our line-up would be:

Starting

Deron Williams
Anthony Morrow
Tashaun Prince
David West
Brook Lopez

Reserves

Jordan Farmar
Marshon Brooks
Damion James/Outlaw
Kris Humphries/Jordan Williams
Johan Petro

That starting line up will be one of the best in basketball. And the bench would be very strong...